Now, here is the background to Romans 9
The Jewish Christians had an issue with the Gentiles being accepted into God's kingdom. They felt like it was all too easy for these Gentiles. They were jealous of the Gentiles and it was beginning to bring in resentment.
the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs is the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Romans 9:4-5 NIV
This is the legacy of Isreal, that the Messiah comes from amongst them.
But when the Messiah came, Isreal wasn't receptive of Him but the Gentiles were
This is where the mumbling begins
It is us God gave the Messiah (the one we refused to accept), why are the Gentiles now getting access freely?
Is it that God doesn't keep to His word? The promise was meant for Isreal so if this Messiah is truly the promise, the Gentiles shouldn't be getting it this way.
Here is Paul's response to this:
I don’t mean that God failed to keep his promise to the Jewish people. But only some of the people of Israel are really God’s people.
Romans 9:6 ERV
It looks like the Israelites have missed their Messiah by not accepting Him but does this now mean that God failed in His promises to them? Paul says NO! Last year while we studied this chapter, I read somewhere that Isreal also means those who are ruled by God.
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Romans 9:6 NIV
By that definition above, not all who are descendants of Isreal are ruled by God. ERV already broke it down. Not all of the people of Isreal are really God's people (that is ruled by God)
This means that not all of Abraham’s descendants are God’s true children. Abraham’s true children are those who become God’s children because of the promise he made to Abraham.
Romans 9:8 ERV
Anyone who walks in the footstep of Abraham (Faith) is a true child of Abraham and God, for it is by this Faith the promise is received.
Now, the promise made to Abraham was broken down in the next verses (from verse 9), we see how Sara gave birth to a son and how Rebecca also conceived. I believe this is where the questions start (please follow from the start carefully so we take nothing out of context)
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Romans 9:11-12 KJV
The elder shall serve the younger. Why? For the purpose of election, that it wouldn't be by works or by birthright
Remember Paul was trying to clear the entitlement of the Israelites in this chapter which is why he referenced Rebecca. Even Isreal (Jacob), your father wasn't chosen because He was the firstborn (Firstborn sons then had a right of inheritance).
He was also not chosen because he worked or did something to be chosen. He was chosen before he was born. And Paul was very careful to mention that both children had not done good nor bad, so this is to state that God's election wasn't based on what bad anyone of them has done or will do
He did this so His purpose according to election might stand. It is by that purpose according to Election the Israelites became and were to not speak against the Gentiles becoming God's people. It is also by that purpose according to the election (Grace, Mercy), that you and I are called children of God, because none of us are relatives of Abraham.
We've examined God's purpose of election and interpreted with context what Paul was trying to say to the Israelites (you can scroll up and read again).
QUESTION - I'm sorry but I don't know why election is sounding like picking some and excluding some to me
ANSWER - The purpose of election here is not to pick one and exclude another (we will see it that God actually blessed Esau). Rather this purpose of election is to make all worthy
This was like a foreshadowing of what is to come in the future, where men who do not belong to the line of Abraham, who had no right to the inheritance would have access to it. The purpose of election is not that of pick one and drop one, it is that of inclusion
Everyone not worthy by works or birthright brought in by the mercy of God. It is this purpose of election that has us standing as children.
The Jews would never have accepted you and I
By birthright, Jacob was not entitled to the inheritance, neither was he by works.
Paul stated clearly that God chose even while they were without sin and it wasn't based on the future (maybe God looked and saw their sin). The criteria were not works. Now, if Jacob was first born and Esau the younger brother, Esau would have been chosen for this purpose of inclusion in this place too. So it wasn't about persons now but God's plan to include all men in the promise [ANSWER ENDS]
Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Romans 9:13 NIV
I believe this is where the questions start flowing.
How is God who is so full of love, all good and no evil, how is He hating somebody? An unborn child for that matter? Now, this is where we pause and throw whatever we have deduced from this scripture away totally.
Let's branch to comprehension passages in the English language a bit. You know the question of
"Who said this? To whom was it said? When was it said? Why was it said according to the passage?" We apply it while studying scripture also
First, let's check this statement as written in context with the rest of the passage. We already went through what Paul was trying to say and where He is coming from. To judge this sentence which is a quote (we will address the quote too after) in the context it has been used, we see that what Paul was trying to say to them was this: God's purpose in loving Jacob is that of choosing Him to become the heir of the covenant.
Though Jacob never deserved. And since your father, Isreal never deserved also, why then do you stand against the Gentiles and say they are undeserving?
Do you not know it is God who chooses?
And in the same way He chose you, He has chosen the Gentiles. So this statement is that of acceptance (Jacob have I loved..) But what did Paul mean when he quoted Esau have I hated?
Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
Romans 9:13 NIV
We will come back here.... "Just as it is written.." Where did they write it?
Mal.1.2 - I have loved you, says the Lord. Yet you say, How and in what way have You loved us? Was not Esau Jacob 's brother? says the Lord, yet I loved Jacob (Israel),
Mal.1.3 - But [in comparison with the degree of love I have for Jacob] I have hated Esau [Edom] and have laid waste his mountains, and his heritage I have given to the jackals of the wilderness.
AMP
“The LORD says to his people, “I have always loved you.” But they reply, “How have you shown your love for us?” The LORD answers, “Esau and Jacob were brothers, but I have loved Jacob and his descendants, and have hated Esau and his descendants. I have devastated Esau's hill country and abandoned the land to jackals.””
Malachi 1:2-3 GNBDC
“I have loved you,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord. “Yet Jacob I have loved, But Esau I have hated, And laid waste his mountains and his heritage For the jackals of the wilderness.”
Malachi 1:2-3 NKJV
Before I explain the verses here in Malachi, let's note that This is the first mention of Love and hate towards Jacob and Esau. Both men were already dead here, they had lived and their works judged.
This particular statement was not made while they were in the womb.
Their possessions were too great for them to remain together; the land where they were staying could not support them both because of their livestock.
Genesis 36:7 NIV
Esau was greatly blessed by God. He had so much possession that the land could not contain
So this is the first time God is mentioning Esau and Jacob using such strong words
We already ruled out that this is how God felt about them before He chose Jacob
This was much later.
And this statement was made loooooooong after both were dead.
Also, note that Esau and Jacob became nations before they died (both greatly blessed by the Lord)
Esau: Edom
Jacob: Isreal
What is the context of Malachi? What made God say that He loved one person and hated the other?
If we study Malachi well, we see that the grumbling from the Jews about the Gentiles concerning the Messiah had somewhat played in earlier times (Malachi). Isreal in the Malachi context is complaining to God that He doesn't love them anymore. According to them, God was not blessing them the way He should. Sebi it is Isreal God chose, why was it looking like they were no longer accepted
“I have loved you,” says the Lord. “But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’ “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob,
Malachi 1:2 NIV
This is God's reply.
Esau was Jacob's brother, yet I have loved Jacob. What is God telling them here? The Jews have always been God's chosen people. He chose them even when they were not deserving.
The problem was not that God stopped loving them. Rather that they had not been faithful to Him
It becomes clearer as we read chapter 1 to 3
Now let's go to Esau (Edom)
Note that we established that Jacob referenced to the Israelites in God's statement was as a nation not individual. So that Same angle for Esau (Edom) Why did God hate Esau (Edom, the nation)?
Though Esau was greatly blessed by God, he and his descendants did not live in faithfulness to God. To see the sin of Esau (Edom), let's go to Obadiah. Sorry, we will be using scripture to explain scripture. This is so we understand everything In context
Obadiah is just 21 verses but please let's all read
It is the answer to what we are looking for. This is where we see what Esau (Edom) did wrong that made God say I have hated Esau
How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!
Obadiah 1:6 KJV
All the hidden things about Esau searched out and laid bare in this chapter. We get to see exactly what he did wrong, the true side to the story
God blessed Esau and made him into a nation, Edom. From having nothing to having all but this inflated Edom's ego
Esau, their father lived a life contrary to God's will and his descendants took it up from there
Like they did worse
God never said he hated or loved Jacob until long after both men had become nations and died.
Isreal, the nation, allowed themselves to be used by God mightily, of course with flaws/disobedience here and there but in all of these, they still had one or 2 men whose hearts were after the Lord. Moses, Joshua, David, Nehemiah, Samuel, Hezekiah, etc came from Isreal. Edom on the other hand, though made great by God, became a godless nation.
They counted God as nothing
The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?
Obadiah 1:3 KJV
They lived in false security. It was a "We don't need God" brag. Obadiah has a long list of sins but the major one was this
For thy violence against thy brother, Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off forever.
Obadiah 1:10 KJV
The reasons God hated Esau was because this nation Edom was opposed to Isreal and God's promise. Now, remember we didn't translate Love in its literal English meaning but rather based on usage meaning. Hate here means to not give special privilege or protection to Edom/Esau. Remember love for Jacob implies special privilege and inclusion where we do not belong
Hate for Esau is cutting off special privileges (in other words, Mercy). Why? Because Esau stood against the Promise which was God's Mercy foreshadowed
Let's fix all of these in the passage.
Before I move on, let's not forget the captivity of the Israelites at Babylon. Edom was involved
Back to Romans 9 and Malachi 1
(we fix in the passage)
The Israelites accused God that He didn't love them I.e they were not favored.
He says He has loved (favored/Chosen) Jacob but hated Esau
He hated Esau because Esau stood against the Promise of the Lord. This is to say those who stand against the Promise of the Lord are not chosen by God.
This promise of God to Abraham is Christ. Jesus is the blessing of Abraham
Back to Paul and the Jews.
Again, the story is they complained about the Gentiles being accepted into Christ, that they had missed the Messiah. Perhaps the Lord did not love them anymore.
So Paul's response in quoting is that God's word didn't fail. Isreal is not just the nation but those who allow God's rule. For the believer in Christ, allowing God rule is accepting the promise of God, Christ!
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Romans 9:13 KJV
This statement from all the explanation is not that of literal hate
Far from it because God really loved Esau (the man) and blessed him greatly. Rather, it is that of God's chosen people. The ones inside of His promise.
Jacob I have loved:
The ones who have accepted my promise and are in my promise, I have loved them (they are my chosen people)
Esau I have hated:
The ones who stand against my promise are not my chosen people
So if the Jews felt they were chosen and the Gentiles had no place, then they should know it wasn't just about being from the nation Isreal but rather the promise in the nation, Isreal and being in it by Faith.
So this is the explanation for Romans 9: 1-13.
QUESTION - And also can we actually be punished by our father when we do something wrong
ANSWER - Only in the sense of loving discipline. Christ already took all of our punishments. No believer stands condemned [ANSWER ENDS]
QUESTION - Is it not understandable that Esau will hate Jacob & Edom hate Isreal? This guy stole his blessing with the help of their mum?
ANSWER - For this, what exactly did Jacob steal? Note that it is not the blessing(s) of God or the inheritance. God wasn't in support of this also. This was Rebecca and Jacob's doing. She was trying most likely to bring the prophecy to pass.
So Genesis 27
If we read through, we see that Esau was blessed also but Jacob received that of the firstborn. If we move further to life after Jacob ran away when he was coming to beg for forgiveness. Before he even got to Esau, Esau already forgave him. He was already greatly blessed also and he moved on from this hurt
It wasn't this stolen blessing by Jacob that Edom was angry about or fought against, it is that of the Lord; the promise. [ANSWER ENDS]
This is great enlightenment. Thank you
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